< Testing, testing--is this thing on? | Main | Screens of Language >
February 21, 2005
Lost in Translation
I'm the language geek, so let's examine the linguistic tendencies lacings of The Love Song of Alfred J. Prufrock (the version I have linked to here includes footnotes) by T.S. Eliot. (Some places refer to it as "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock," too. Odd...)
Eliot loves allusions to death... In the end, Prufrock compares himself to John the Baptist, Lazarus, and Hamlet.
****
In each of the following translations I’ve underlined similar lines or words in each of the languages; additionally,
Italian
is represented in red-orange, andFrench is represented
in blue (The English appears in regular font to cut down on confusion).The Italian directly from the poem:
S’io credesse che mia risposta fosse
A persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
Ma perciocche giammai di questo fondo
Non torno vivo alcun, s’i’odo il vero,
Senza tema d’infamia ti rispondo.
As translated into English by Google's language tool:
S' I believed that my answer was
To person who never returned to the world,
This staria flame without piu jolt.
But perciocche giammai of this bottom
I do not return alive some, s' i' I hear the true one,
Without infamy topic I answer to you.
This English translation translated back into Italian:
I della s ha creduto che la mia risposta fosse alla persona che non ha rinviato mai al mondo,
questa fiamma di staria senza scossa di piu.
Ma giammai del perciocche di questa parte inferiore non restituisco vivo alcuno, i'della s sento quello allineare, senza soggetto infamy rispondo a voi.
French translation of the Italian:
Peux-tu comprendre Tout l'amour Qui me lie à toi Quand de la vanité des choses J'oublie tout jusqu'à ce que l'ombre devienne chair.
This French translated into English:
Can you include/understand
All the love Which binds me to you
When vanity of the things I forget all until the shade becomes flesh.
English of the French translated back into French:
Pouvez vous include/understand tout l'amour qui me lie à vous quand la vanité des choses j'oublient tous jusqu'à ce que la nuance devienne chair
This French translated finally back into English:
You can include/understand
all the love which binds me to you
when the vanity of the things I forget all until the nuance becomes flesh.
Amazingly, when you Google "'The Love Song of Alfred J. Prufrock' T.S. Eliot + Italian" this is one of the top results--http://findfreeessays.com/
I'm quoting the explanation from the first paragraph that this site gives as a sample of this paper that you can buy*.
"This first stanza is very captivating and makes it almost impossible to put the poem down. It reads as such, “If I thought that my reply would be to someone who would ever return to earth, this flame would remain without further movement; but as no one has ever returned alive from this gulf, if what I hear is true, I can answer you with no fear of infamy.” This stanza of the poem was written by Dante [Alighieri] from his story called Dante’s Inferno, when Dante was in hell and was told the secrets of hell by Guido, who was in the Eighth chasm of Hell."
A passage from Dante Alighieri's Inferno (Canto 27, lines 61-66) spoken by Guido da Montefeltro in response to the questions of Dante, whom Guido supposes is dead, since he is in Hell. The flame in which Guido is encased vibrates as he speaks: "If I thought that that I was replying to someone who would ever return to the world, this flame would cease to flicker. But since no one ever returns from these depths alive, if what I've heard is true, I will answer you without fear of infamy." (quoted from WSU.edu)
There is a lot to be said for translation. Sure, some words don't exactly move fluidly from one language to the next, but some of the context is also lost in the placement and alignment of the words within each respective language. (This applies mostly to languages like French whose adjectives follow nouns, as a general rule (which, much like English, has exceptions despite this rule).)
This exercise in translation provides a springboard for discussion of why Eliot includes this passage from Dante's Inferno in the first place--examine the words I've underlined in each translation to the next (remember to match colors to find similarities among languages). A few of the words in Italian and French are easily rooted to the English language; however, within each of the translations into English there is some valor of the statement to lose.
What is the meaning in the passage that is lost through the translations?
The passages quoted from sites above show their translations directly into English from Inferno (in italics)--compare these to the several English translations that I've provided: what is lost? Is anything gained? Why did Eliot put this at the beginning of the poem, anyway?
Eliot finished "Prufrock" in his early years of being a poet, in his graduate studies at Harvard (What the Thunder Said).
*note: I am not supporting the business of "buying" school papers--I totally disagree with this practice, and in no way to I condone this. This quote just-so-happens to be interesting enough to use.
Posted by KarissaKilgore at February 21, 2005 8:19 PM
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
Comments
Well much of the meaning is lost when you translate through Google 500 times. :')
On a more serious note, your entry got me thinking, and though I cannot provide any insights now, I think you brought up a very interesting point worth looking into.
(This would be perfect for EL150, considering we just finished reading this not too long ago...)
Posted by: Evan at February 22, 2005 1:42 PM
The fact that I translated it several times is not the point, Evan. Of course much of the meaning is lost--when moving words from language to language in ANY context (not just this instance), meaning is lost.
This is my point: how is what Eliot provided through Dante meaningful when we know its translation? By sifting the information through languages and comparing, we can find different meanings and sometimes find something in one language that wasn't visible in another.
Posted by: Karissa at February 22, 2005 5:32 PM
WOW. You have definetly lost me in translation. I find it extremely interesting that so much is lost. It makes you think back to all of the documents that we read from the Greek and Roman cultures. Have they the same meaning? What words were lost? What did translators make up just to have a passage make sense?
All these questions and more stem from a long standing tradition of making the written word available to all. I wonder what the world would be like if we all shared the same language and there wasn't so much dispute about that.
Posted by: Tiffany at February 24, 2005 4:05 PM
Well, the story of the Tower of Babel in Genesis tells us that there -was- a time that there was one language on Earth. (Some of the towers still exist today.)
One language would simplify things greatly. I don't mind languages most of the time, though, because it makes much of life more interesting; this poem is a great example of how language can be used to emphasize a point rather than exacerbate it.
Posted by: Karissa at February 24, 2005 4:42 PM
It IS actually "J.Alfred", not "Alfred J."
Posted by: Heidi at December 15, 2005 5:46 PM
Thanks for WSU.edu's translation of Dante. I am 46 years old, and no matter how much crap I have to sift through to find valid information on the internet, such as you have presented, it beats the hell out of my time as a curious child. In "the old days", I had to either ask pertinent questions from the grizzled old man down the street, or, walk to the City Library and sort through "File Drawers" and endless books that seemed reasonably relative to my original question(s)- sometimes ending in disappointment. Again, thanks for your efforts as they make mine a whole lot easier. Bob
Posted by: Bob at November 1, 2006 2:54 PM