March 24, 2004

10 Reasons Why SHU Doesn't Need a Football Team

10. Establishing a football team at Seton Hill in order to recruit more male students will bring more "jocks" to the campus. I'm not saying that I hate "athletes". There is a strong difference between a jock and an athlete. The Administration needs to understand this, and know that with football as a recruiting tool, you are going to get more jocks.

9. Jocks, if I may dip into stereotyping, will bring more drugs, alcohol, and fights to the campus. Yes, everyone knows that its all here already, but I assure you (having talked to upperclassmen) that it was never as bad as this year. Havey was never destroyed like it was this year by a certain team that likes to hit small white balls with wooden bats. When hearing an orientation speech about why they are offering new sports on campus, they said it was to add a new aspect to student life. It has long been my argument that that aspect was "excessive drinking and destruction thanks to large, strong brutes."

8. The current sports teams are still fresh, and were flooded with players. Both the basketball and baseball teams signed on too many players and in turn wasted dubious amounts of scholarship money for athletes to sit the bench. Now I'm sure both of these teams will be much better next year, and settle into the groove of being University teams, wouldn't it be wise to actually give the athletic program time to iron things out rather than bring in a football team? If SHU insists on adding major sports teams every year, things are going to get extremely messy.

7. It takes a boat-load of money to get a football team off and running. First off, you will have to buy jerseys, and insanely expensive equipment. Helmets, pads, gatorade buckets to dump on the coaches. Not only that, but they will have to spend a good deal of money on this new football coach (which they already have), who is going to try and put together our new rag-tag bunch of jocks.

6. Hey, doesn't having a football team require, oh I don't know, a football FIELD? I have heard that SHU might be taking over Greensburg/Salem's field downtown, which I suppose would suffice. But renovating that will cost a good deal of money, and then SHU will eventually want to have a practice field on campus, which will require more money. What about training facilities? Do you really think that the SHU Football players will be allowed to practice at St. Vincent's like the Steelers? I think not.

5. SHU's goal (as stated in the March 04 issue of the Setonian) is to get 2000 kids on campus. They plan on doing this by using the football team as a major recruiting tool. But there are other, more beneficial ways to get kids on campus. For one, lowering the tuition (which we all know won't happen). There is always offering more majors. SHU is thinking about adding one, maybe two more over the next two years. That's fine and dandy, but if they would add more professors and create some more interesting and in-demand majors, that would bring more folk to this place. Of course, making things like Sullivan and Havey look nicer wouldn't hurt either.

4. Speaking of recruiting more people. If SHU plans on getting upwards of 2000 kids on campus, wouldn't it be wise to use the allotted "sweet football cash" to fix the residence and parking situations. The dorms are already over-crowded and upping the enrollment next year is going to make things worse. Don't think the problem will be rectified by the addition of this new dorm. They will need at least another on top of that, as well as a totally new parking lot. As of right now, I'm under the idea that these things, if they are to ever occur, won't happen for at least two years.

3. SHU claims to have just as many academic plans as they do sports plans. And yet, these plans (as once again stated in the March issue of the Setonian) don't seem to really be taking effect until years from now. And the immediate ones, like the honors program and graduate studies, have no bearing on my whatsoever. Why should I care if they are reconfiguring programs that don't even involve me? Things like better computer labs, nicer dorms, better Sullivan, and hell, even sprinklers in Havey would be certainly welcomed over 40 stinky football players.

2. Seton Hill Football stands no chance of actually being good. Yeah, SHU can throw tons of money at it and hope to be decent. But really, when it comes down to it, what will it matter? They won't be competing in the NCAA, and the NAIA is peanuts. It would take many many years for this team to get off the ground and actually compete with the other teams in the area.

1. The ratio of male athletes to non-athletes will widen to a ridiculous length. As it is right now, there are only a handful of total non-athletes around. Pure liberal arts kids. The rest play a sport. This will be worsened by the football players, which will create a wide gap and alienate kids that just want to play guitar and draw pictures. If you want to totally outlaw the very essence of a liberal arts college, then go right ahead and bring on the jocks.

So those are my reasons, and I plan on sticking to them. I had mixed feelings today when they announced during lunch that there would be a football team next year. At first I was sickened by the thought, and then my heart was warmed by the loud "BOO"s that came from the dining audience. People were booing the idea of another sports team on campus, and I was glad.

I know nothing I say on this simple blog will change the ideas of this administration. But just wait... I can't wait to say "I told you so" when I'm a junior.

Posted by MikeRubino at March 24, 2004 1:33 AM


Comments

Rock on, fellow non-athlete! I wholeheartedly agree, and am noticing as an alum that my alma mater is going down the toilet. One of the reasons I went to Seton Hill in the first place was because of the peace and quiet. By my senior year, that was replaced by the annoying parts of the male population running and screaming through the hallways. I can't imagine adding football to that.

And I'd be willing to bet that tuition will go up even further once they realize that they'll need more campus security and maintenance staff to keep up with the riff raff. Dearest Seton Hill...

Posted by: Donna R. Hibbs at March 24, 2004 9:16 AM

RIGHT ON MIKE!!!! I was one of those "Boo"ing dining members. Why doesn't the administration realize that what they are doing is growing too fast, too soon? I mean honestly. Let the new basketball and baseball teams start showing that they deserve to be here before add another team that is just going to take away the scholarship money from the academic people and those of us who don't play any sport whatsoever. We need to rise up against this disastor and show them the wrong in their ways!

Tiff

Posted by: Tiffany at March 24, 2004 10:34 AM

What has the world come to...? Football is not a constitutional right, and not all universities need football programs to be successful. Can I be perfectly honest in saying that one of the reasons (further down on my list of reasons for choosing SHU) was that there was NO football? It's true. The only way I was around football in high school was by vehicle of the marching band (I was a trombone player turned drum major).

*sigh* Can we have a marching band instead?

Posted by: Karissa at March 24, 2004 1:14 PM

Aye, that must be a hard Little Debbie Zebra Cake to swallow for the artists up there, as well as the other sports teams. It's no secret that football takes presidence over all other athletic programs in this area, and the current jocks will clearly see this, no matter how few brain cells you say they have. They fact is that your current jocks will get no recognition whatsoever for their merits in baseball or basketball when football is the current topic under discussion. And we all know that jocks are not controlled by their brains, wangs, or even arms as much as they are their EGOS. Without attention, the baseball teams and basketball teams will become second priority and slowly they will whither and die with the flowers. I know this because the same thing happened at QCHS with all the teams aside from Soccer and Basketball teams... the hockey team (the only of these three to make it to playoffs) got no more recognition then some inconsistent announcements about games. And things like track, cross country, softball, baseball, golf, and the ski club get no recognition whatsoever. So to end it, the artsy people up there shouldn't be the only ones complaining.


Come to think of it.. The ski club gets a lot of recognition too.

Good luck with them,
Brother

Posted by: 1/2 of the Brothers Rubino at March 24, 2004 7:01 PM

I'm not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, because I completely agree with all your comments made regarding the addition of a football team to this campus. HOWEVER, I really found offense to and disagree with your comment made that the "NAIA is peanuts". I am an athlete here on this campus (women's soccer),and I'd like to say that the NAIA is highly competitive and is only NAIA because our school is not big enough to be enlisted as an NCAA school. NAIA in fact in regards to the NCAA is regarded as being more competitive that any D3 NCAA sport and is comparatively the same with D2 schools. I think that bringing a football team to SHU will actually bring a lot of money to this school (I'm honestly sorry for disagreeing with a lot more of your argument than I originally had thought), and also a sense of unity and pride across the campus. The football team will bring interest to SHU, prospective students will give SHU a chance before shooting it down as a little private school on some hill in GBG...I believe a football team will put us on the map. Walk down the parking lot some day...look at the stickers that litter the cars in it, you'll see Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Nova, Virginia Tech stickers prominently displayed on the vehicles. Now I'm not saying that an SHU program will be as huge as the one's listed above, but I do believe that it will bring some SHU students hearts actually onto this campus and not elsewhere....as much as I hate to admit it, that's what football is good for. I'm an athlete here so I guess I am biased, but I do honestly believe that this will be good for our school...I'm an all american-girl, so of course I'm pro-baseball, pro-basketball, and pro-football...it will give me something on campus to do...while it might cause some disruptions as a whole, i'm ready for it...SHU is ready for it...bring it on!
-Mel :)

Posted by: Mel at March 25, 2004 12:08 AM

I love your image about "play[ing] guitar and draw[ing] pictures." I have a similar view of what I thought Seton Hill would be like, except mine included poetry readings and cappuchino.

Though I do experience some of that, I agree that that vision is fading. Fan vans are taking over.

I admire your(et al.) efforts in coordination of the improv night and guitar playing sessions; what a wonderful change!!

And though we cannot alter the administration's plans, we can keep those intellectual and talent-oriented programs going. Keep posting about them, and if you need help, call on the bloggers...we like these types of activities (at least I do).

You won't be the only I-told-you-soer when you are a junior, however, no triumph will be found in that statement, only grief for the pieces of our educational experience we have lost...you know--bulletin boards, mailboxes, signs, classrooms and most clubs that gravitate toward intellectual thought outside the classroom. Poor Havey (and I thought Swedish fish lining the hallways was bad). I can just imagine. At least Sullivan and the new rec center will be pretty. Protection of one's own possessions is an instinct. >:-(

Posted by: Amanda at March 25, 2004 12:26 AM

In response to Mel--

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I realize that not everyone on campus is going to agree with me here. But I should clear some things up. By referring to the NAIA as "peanuts" I was making reference to its popularity and recognition. Even though the NAIA might be more competitive, its not as commercialized as the NCAA. There is big money in the NCAA, and everyone knows about it. There aren't football brackets circulating offices for the NAIA tournament. So therefore, a football team here can never reach the heights and popularity that an NCAA team would reach.

Also, I feel that school spirit right now is doing pretty good. Adding football to the mix is actually, in my opinion, going to hurt school spirit. Tear us apart and put a divider between the people that support it and the people that loathe it. SHU has tenure, and a reputation for being a liberal arts college. That's the reason I came here, and that's the reason many people came here. Expanding and adding all of these crazy sports so fast is a spell for disaster, and is ruining the reputation of the school. Numerous alumni (including some that have posted on my blog) have mentioned how they are disappointed with the direction this school is going.

Posted by: Mike Rubino at March 25, 2004 12:48 AM

I have to go with Karissa and say the one good thing about the football team would maybe be a marching band. I was in marching band in high school and I miss it, I wouldn't mind twirling flags again. But even a marching band on top of the football team would be incredibly expensive.

Posted by: Sue at March 25, 2004 1:46 AM

Not to rain on your comment parade, but I also came up with reasons 11 and 12 to add to your list. Check them out on my blog. (Click on my name right below this entry)

Posted by: Brian at March 25, 2004 12:55 PM

In response to your comment Mike, upon the football team's arrival here on campus our school will be in the process of going NCAA D2.....that includes all sports...that's right I said NCAA...so the athlete's on this campus will finally get the "recognition" they deserve.

-Mel :)

Posted by: Mel at March 25, 2004 1:03 PM

Raising tuition won't be a problem. With new Althetes comes a new barrage of damages to Havey Hall. If just baseball players can do so much, just think what wonders a football team will bring. I'd say that the ten grand Havey's put out this year in damages, coupled with the twenty-five I'm sure it will be charged next year will more than cover the cost of added security. Then again, it will probably just go to the football scholarships, so the players will have more pocket money to buy alchohol and do damage. Sigh...

Posted by: Paul Crossman at March 30, 2004 1:54 AM

I was a "boo"er too! I came to this school cause the liberal arts program was a big focus here. Now it's focused on sports and growth (or should I say obese). I can see years down the road from now people saying "Where has the liberal arts gone?" (sigh) OH, well at least I graduate this May...too bad for you though :(

Posted by: Brendan Meany at March 30, 2004 11:50 PM

I have seen the entire campus of SHU turn to crap just within the last two years. Destruction, vandalism, theft. The campus no longer looks nice as all of the three month old garbage gets in the way. The football team is a simple way to get more students onto the campus. More students = more cash.

The future ramifications don't matter.

Posted by: No good name at April 16, 2004 10:14 PM

This is "JOCK" here. "I know I'm not real smart" If you have a problem with the team, do something about it. Nothings going to get done when you "normal liberal arts people" wine like a little jerk. Having a football team is great. We're sorry there's no chess team,for you, deal with it.

Posted by: anonymous at February 2, 2005 2:39 PM

This is "JOCK" here. "I know I'm not real smart" If you have a problem with the team, do something about it. Nothings going to get done when you "normal liberal arts people" wine like a little jerk. Having a football team is great. We're sorry there's no chess team,for you, deal with it.

Posted by: anonymous at February 2, 2005 2:39 PM

This is "JOCK" here. "I know I'm not real smart" If you have a problem with the team, do something about it. Nothings going to get done when you "normal liberal arts people" wine like a little jerk. Having a football team is great. We're sorry there's no chess team,for you, deal with it.

Posted by: anonymous at February 2, 2005 2:39 PM

Well thanks for the comment "Anonymous." It's always worth noting that I made this post last year, before the football team was even solidified.

Secondly, guess what... this isn't high school. So making threats and flipping out doesn't change people's opinions of you. I must say that so far I haven't experienced anything with the football team and therefore have no idea if my theories have been proven to be true.

But hey, good luck with your season next year.

Posted by: Mike at February 2, 2005 3:14 PM

PS- Chess meetings are Tuesdays nights in the Admin Parlors at 11:15pm.

Posted by: Mike at February 2, 2005 3:15 PM

Good to know we're not in highschool any more. I Haven't realized it yet. Why jump to conclusions before we even got here. I think that sinical people like you are the problem with this place, and by the way this place stunk before we even got here. Football was a large step forward into fixing this dump. Good Luck with chess then. I bet thats exactly what this university needed for people with absolutely no athletic ability.

THANK YOU as always.

Posted by: anonymous at February 2, 2005 5:07 PM

At the very least, it's good to see that you admit to your own stupidity. How can the "liberal arts people" wine like A jerk? You must have missed the oh, I don't know, 50 or 60 classes involving tenses and conjugation during grade school. Probably out playing football.

Anyway, if that little excert is an example of how well you write, you should probably start practicing the phrase "Would you like paper or plastic" now, because you're going to need it. That 1.2 GPA you got last semester (rounded off nicely with the "C" in woodshop) will surely be good enough to get a job at Giant Eagle.

I don't know, perhaps I'm being to "sinical" here, but was it really worth lowering the academic standard so that people like anonymous here could ignore their studies and play football?

To end:
Good luck with football then. I'm sure it's exactly what this university needed for people with absolutely no academic ability.

And yes, I'd like fries with that.

Posted by: Paul at February 2, 2005 5:53 PM

http://www.maddox.xmission.com/dumbassjocks.html

*cough*

Posted by: A Chess Player at February 2, 2005 7:02 PM

Wow, i just love when fags who probably never had the balls to play football because they were too busy beating off to Elton John, throw out some bullshit like that! Just for the record, i'm in a program that has to maintain a 3.0, which i did! So next time you lose a game of chess, or your circle-jerkin, just remember why you have a NEW Rec. Center and a NEW dorm room! Chess or even the worst sport of them all (soccer) didn't get these new facilities made, the real men, or should i say jocks, did! And lastly, the jock to athlete comparison, might have been the worst thing i have ever heard of! Jocks are something football players wear to protect our manhood, which you apparently do not have!

Posted by: Anonymous at February 3, 2005 12:15 AM

Wow, you've really out-done yourself this time Zachie. If anyone out there would like to tell "anonymous" what they think, you can contact Zachary J. Simko, from Turtle Creek PA, room number 300 in Havey hall, Seton Hill University. Direct dial is 1-724-830-1849. If you'd prefer to email him, it's sim7372@acad.setonhill.edu. Snail Mail is box number 716D. Do me a favor and let him know what you think.

Posted by: Paul at February 3, 2005 12:52 AM

Anonymous...first let me say your mother did a poor job raising you...you lack love...Second, what thats "normal liberal arts" comment all about....Welcome to Seton Hill, a liberal arts university (that means you too ; )

ps. I'm a theatre major..and 'gasp' I played football in highschool!!!
~check-mate

Posted by: Elton 'John' Lover at February 3, 2005 1:22 PM

I would not use such harsh rhetoric on anyone. I have to stand up for Mike on this one; if the only insult you can come up with is "fag," "girl," or whatever, that only furthers the stereotypes that nearly 90% of the campus has of you, sir.

Remember, you were and still are not welcome here so long as you demonstrate your lack of scholarship by using such derrogatory and unsophisticated language. This is a liberal arts college, not a football school. Think before you construct any further arguments, because you are only making yourself look like an ass.

If I were there when they announced this, I would have "booed" too. I'm not paying boatloads of tuition to hear some jock argue irrelevant points on an ACADEMIC blog.

Good post, Mike! Controversy is good... It's how change is made.

Posted by: Evan at February 3, 2005 1:55 PM

Because I am a freshman football player on campus this year, you could imagine that there are many areas where I disagree with your thoughts. I would like to start out by informing you that just because I play a sport does not mean I am a �jock�. I am a STUDENT-athlete, notice that it is the word student followed by athlete. I take my academics very seriously as do the other student-athletes on campus. The athletes have to maintain their academics to even be able to participate in their sport. We must do this while juggling our class schedule with practice and often many other responsibilities. Unlike the �liberal arts kids� on campus who are too busy smoking up, �drawing pictures� and �playing guitar� to make it to class. Come to think of it, on a trip I took to New York City last year as a member of the NHS, yea a �jock� in the NHS, I saw some bums on the street corner doing just that, drawing pictures and playing guitar. Next, I would like to touch on your comments about �jocks� bringing drugs and alcohol to the university. You are probably too busy sitting in your room blogging to get out and realize that both drugs and alcohol already existed on campus and have been here long before the arrival of the football team. Lastly, I would like to let you know that just because I play football I am not going to bring down the academic standards of the university. Last semester I managed a 3.74 GPA with 17 credits; I am a history major, working on a minor in art, practicing for the upcoming football season, participating in a work study, and still finding time to take guitar lessons which seem to be so close to the hearts of liberal arts students. While I could sit here all day and criticize your thoughts, I have to go to the gym because that�s all I can do, lift those weights�right? Besides I am not going to sit here and waste anymore of my time on you and your supports, including alumni, because your words and �boos� mean so little to the university that they are continually taking money that would normally go to the liberal arts program and giving it to the �stinky� football players.

O yea and PAUL, you don�t have to look me up. My name is Joe Vennare from Moon Twp. Pa. I am a history major, art minor, and seeking my certification in secondary education. Yea that�s right, I am going to teach your kids some day!! Feel free to say hi around campus, but more than likely all you will get in return is the finger, not because I am a jock, but because you disrespected me before I even set foot on campus.
THANKS�yours truly, the not so dumb jock

Posted by: joe at February 3, 2005 2:23 PM

*Raises hand*

I would like to point out that I am a "liberal arts kid" and I would like to not that I have a 3.6 cumulative GPA. OH! And I don't smoke, don't play guitar, AND I go to class every day unless I am sick.

I would also like to point out that the Rec Center is too small and the new dorm, while having it's bonuses, still has its faults. Also, let me say that neither of these things is attributed to the football team alone. They are attributed to the general rising in the student population.

Plus I would like to say that the definition of a sport is something that shows skill and exerting energy. It takes a great amount of skill to maneuver a soccer ball around a field, just as it takes a great amount of skill for an equestian to guide a horse. Every sport has its positives and negatives. I admire all athletes as long as they are being sportsmanlike to their fellow athletes. That does not include making cracks at other sports....

Posted by: Tiffany at February 3, 2005 5:51 PM

To everyone who seems to have a problem with the football team... I'm not sure what high school's you all went to, but it couldn't have been bad enough for you to hate the idea of a football team being on campus that bad. I am one of the four quarterbacks on the football team, and while my GPA wasn't the greatest in the world i still maintained a 2.5 GPA, while passing 16 credits, lifting, Practicing, Working at Champs in the Westmoreland mall, doing work study, and still have time for myself. Non-atheletes, and I use that term in no disrespect, don't understand that we have to work twice as hard to be taken half as seriously as regular "students". I've played football since the age of six, and all through high school I was on the honor roll. I understand that the baseball team had done some things in havey that have cause damages, which in-turn made non-baseball players pay fines. Well I would like to point out that we have been here for a semester and had $25 in fines. I think someone posted we would accumulate $25,000. People who left earlier messages about being "fags" or "girls" because they are in the art department or thearter were wrong. I'm outraged that people stereo-typed those people like that. A kid I know who went to Freedom High school, who I played football against, is in the thearter department here. I would never call him a fag just because he is a thearter major. As I would hope that he would not disgrace me by calling me a "jock". I hope you all realize that I a Football player have taken it upon myself to show everyone that stereo-typing, reguardless of what they do or who they are is wrong. You should get to know us before you write us off as, "Drug using, Alcohol drinking, Fighting, Neanderthal ( thats right a 4 syllable word) football players. What people don't realize is that the renevations that were done to havey, were because of Coach Snyder. He went to view the residence halls and told the president of our school that these living spaces were unacceptable. That's the real reason you're renovations were made. Yes we are going to take a lot of money to start this program, and I understand where you are all coming from with disagreeing with the school giving us the money, but this campus is growing because we will have a football team next year. More people have now heard of this school, and you will soon get more students. Some of these will still be regular students, some will be here for atheletics, but for whatever the reason, we are all still here, and classmates. To the remark about us being dumb, we are required by the NAIA to maintain a 2.0 to be able to compete. Not only that, but our coach has us go to mandatory study halls for an hour and a half two times a week if you have under at 2.5. As to the comment about NAIA not being a good enough conference, I would like to point out that our team will be plaing in the Mid-states Atheletic Confrence, and four of the football teams in our conference are top 10 in the NATION. And two more teams are in the top 25. I don't know how much more competition you want, but that's pretty good. Further more, the school and the coaches eventually want to compete at the NCAA D2 level down the road. But luckily for all of you who think that the NAIA is nothing, We will only play 1 NAIA school next year, the rest of the schools will be at the NCAA D2 level. As for the person who made a comment about undeserved scholarships... What makes you think that because they sit on the bench, they don't earn that scholarship at every single practice. The problem with non-atheletes is that they don't see what goes on behind the scenes, on the practice field, in the weight room, in the film room, on the scout team. Some of those "bench warmers" are the most vital team members. It takes a certain level of devotion to play a sport at even the highschool level. And I learned quickly it takes twice that to play at the college level. Unless you've experienced that level of determination, don't ever come at an athelete and tell them that they don't deserve that scholarship. My name is Chad Davies, I live in 206 havey call me and I would love to have a debate about this, I also would love to meet the guy who posted the top 10 reasons. Thank you for your time, and anyone who reads this and has a problem with it is more than welcome to come by my room.

Posted by: Chad at February 3, 2005 6:13 PM

This is hilarious! *Chuckles I don't associate with any of these people b/c they don't associate with me... probabley since I am not an athlete, it seems to be that way. I hate walking pass the athletic offices, no one moves out of the way.

You can talk to me you know... even though I am a commuter and a non-athlete.. although I was mascot for my high school.

AND I TAP DANCE WITH MY BESTEST FRIEND KARISSA:-)

Posted by: Firefighter Chica at February 3, 2005 7:50 PM

"worst sport of them all (soccer)"

*Try telling the rest of the world that, Zach. They are REALLY committed to that crappy game. I mean, What kind of a game counts UP!? That's total BS. And get this, they call soccer FOOTBALL in the rest of the world! I guess they are SO envious that they had to steal the name! oh wait.

You liberal arts guys need to stick a joint in your mouths and shut up, Zach knows exactly what he's talking about. Everything he says is so well thought out and comes straight from his brain, which is protected by a jock, something that he is not.

Lay off him, honestly. You are OBVIOUSLY just jealous because you never played the sport. I mean seriously, if you played football you'd know that you are only in action for 15 minutes during the whole game, which is TOTALLY better than the billion hours that a soccer game takes. It takes realy courage to go out there with all those pads and a helmet and push a man for 6 seconds STRAIGHT. In gay socer you just run around with nothing on like losers and try to kick a ball somewhere while Elton John plays in the back ground.

If you liberal arts guys and chess dorks would just play a real sport like football you would know why we are so cool and smart. I can't imagine any 'starving artist' has EVER gotten above a 3.0 because you're too busy smoking doobies.

Shesus.*


*JOCK CHEAT SHEET: This comment is full of 'sarcasm.' n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

But seriously, to help you out, Zach:
http://www.mcdonalds.com/usa/work.html

Posted by: Dan Rubino (No i'm not Mike, Zach) at February 3, 2005 7:58 PM

Careful Dan, Zachie might spit on your burger...

Posted by: Paul at February 3, 2005 8:10 PM

Chad if you read the blog entry sequentially following this one, you would realize that you are not the target of Mike's distaste for the new SHU football team. He distinctly disentangles your confusion between jocks and Athletes and would deem you an Athlete.
Athletics are not the only extra curricular activities students can participate in on campus. I do not deem Athletics to be counter productive to a college setting; however, if Seton Hill accepts a greater percent of Athletes who are not going to participate and create other on campus programs, the creative diversity of our college will suffer. I don't know if their is a chess team, but it is a legitimate activity which would assist diversity. Diversity has been proven to assist in creative and academic growth.

Posted by: Stephan at February 3, 2005 8:13 PM

Disentangles Puff? Come on, don't make me beg.

Posted by: Paul at February 3, 2005 8:14 PM

hey fuck u buddy please come say these things to my face im begging you

Posted by: Travis Milliron at February 3, 2005 8:16 PM

Sorry if I offended anyone by calling the anonymous responder "jock." I was appalled at his response and did not intend to direct that at anyone else. I blogged about this discussion in hopes that somehow everyone can come to some kind of understanding.

http://blogs.setonhill.edu/EvanReynolds/cat_diversity.html#007265#more

Posted by: Evan at February 3, 2005 8:17 PM

Hi, i'm going to say this very very nicely, because if i don't then us big dumb "jocks" will get an even worse name. Anyway, i would really like to see if you have what it takes to make it to the college level. Second this isn't the end once you come to SHU to play football. Not only are we trying to get the same education as everyone else but there is always the chance of playing at the next level. It not always the NFL but you also have the Arena league, Canadian league, and European league that we have the chance to go. So this isn't the last step for everyones football career. And about your comment about people just wanting to make art, and play guitar. I'll have you know that i am a very big football jock, who also plays guitar. My music is almost as important as football to me. So I really don't appreciate the stereo-typing that you were doing. I would actually be very happy to show you that i can play guitar better than you anytime, and i could probobally do alot of other things better than you could. I just think that you are jealous of all of the attention that football players get. I think you would just die to get even a 16th of the thunder that football players do. I have been on campus for a 1 semester already, and there hasn't been one person on campus that has said one word to my face about the football players being a burden here at SHU. I think that you are one of very few people here who aren't excited about it. You probobally were a major dork, and wasn't very social in HS, so that why you came to a school without a football team. I feel you on expressing your feelings, but you better watch the way you put your words together next time because i know alot of people who are not very happy about this and i'm one of them. But think of you saying that our team will suck. and just picture that you won't even be part of that. Because if football was easy then everyone would do it.

Posted by: Chaz Kocher at February 3, 2005 9:08 PM

Mike - I am 100% behind you on this post. I came to Seton Hill for some freakin' "peace and quiet," as Donna said (back when it was SHC)....Just for the record, you know, not all of us came from all girls' high schools. Some of us came from public high schools with Quad A division football. I could have applied to Division I football schools, but I didn't because I liked the Seton Hill atmosphere (small, quiet, academic-focused, and Catholic).

Look, your stereotypes of football players (in general) are TRUE. (I think in my senior class, there was maybe 1 decent one - I graduated with 470 other people, and knew a lot of the football players in my class.) Our football players were in trouble for marijuana use, a few cases of sexual harassment, drinking, etc. Heck, I'm not proud to admit it, but my senior class (2001) was kicked out of the Carnegie Science Center my sophomore year for doing some of that stuff. That had NEVER happened before. It was a HUGE embarrassment for Mt. Lebanon. Guess who was responsible? Yeah - Most of them were football players a.k.a. jocks who think they're such hot stuff and that they are entitled to everything.

Evan's right in the sense that we can't go back and stop the football team from happening. But it doesn't mean that we're all going to have warm fuzzies all around just because the football athletes here. And it REALLY doesn't help things when they're still acting (again, 90% of them) like the bunch of arrogant, "macho" people they were in high school, and slacking academically. Anyways, it's not like these guys are going to go on and play professionally, in contrast to many of my classmates who will graduate in May, and already exhibit a lot of talent (as seen from their work experience and academic achievements), and potential for success in the future.

Another thing that people might want to think about are the disproportionate numbers of students in various majors. Obviously, some majors will be more popular than others, but there is a huge gap here. You would not believe how many of the athletes are in the Social Sciences department, usually for Business. What about the other majors? One of my Chem major friends (fellow senior) says that the Chem department has been shrinking for a few years now.

If you ever want to know what this school was ACTUALLY like before all of this university nonsense, talk to my fellow classmates (who were here when it was SHC) or, even better, alums. It's no use wishing, but sometimes I can't help but wish that I could have graduated when the majority of my alum friends did in May of 2002.

Posted by: Emily Kasky at February 3, 2005 9:36 PM

OK, so first off I would just like to say that I wish I would have known about this blog the month and year it came out. Um Yeah March of 2004 - people its almost March 2005. Second, I being a non-jock, non-athelete, non-sports entrepreneur (pick the term of your choice because I frankly do not care)or consider myself to be a "liberal art" person feel that if you group all of the football team together you are being completely and utterly stereotypical. I know some of the football players and some study hard and some hardly study, some drink and party while others stay in the room and keep to themselves, but they are different people who have one thing in common--Football! You cannot place blame on this campus to just one group of people because I know of quite a few things that "liberal arts" people have done --- Peeing in the fountain outside of the library, stealing school property, and sneaking in off campus guests for the night! Some of those things cost the school money too ya know...

I feel like there are two types of people that dominate this school: The sports and the actors. I being one of the minorities on this campus (A Chemistry Secondary Education Major) really do not like all of this pointing fingers at one another..."They get a new sports team every year that degrades our campus" "Well finally we can get those theater majors to quit bitching because they got a BRAND NEW theater in Grb" (which by the way no one complained about) ... So what's was the reason you guys chose SHU again? The sports...the arts...the campus...whatever the reason is it does not matter because acting the way you all are is like being in high school again, yep that's right I quote my friend Zack T..."Welcome to Seton Hill High School"! The reason I came to this school was to get away from all this high school shit. All the cliques are still here: the nerds, the "jocks", the freaks, the "art" people, the popular crowd, and the list goes on and on.

I happen to have a huge diverse group of friends (Deanna, Zack, Therese, Sara, Renee, Mel S, Mike, Mel W, Brandon, Adrian, Jimmy, Bubba, Chad...just to name few) so I don't want people to be like "oh she just saying that cause shes friends with them". I'm saying what needs to be said. Who cares if the school wants to bring football here, hell I don't care if they bring ping pong here. I knew that once I came here as a Freshman (fall of 02, which makes me a junior) and they said that we had become a university I was like "well then we need to get alot bigger pretty damn soon". It was the schools choice to become a university and try to become largerly populated with students...NOT any team or particular major. I don't place any blame to any team or group...I place my blame to the school.

Well to end this little outburst, I just want to say that everyone is guilty on this campus of one thing or another. We all drink, we all party, we all do something that pisses everyone else off. So why don't we all grow up and quick this high school drama and have some fun the rest of our college years.

Oh yeah Adrian says "Why can't we all just get along!"

Posted by: Janice at February 3, 2005 10:39 PM

THANK YOU JANICE
it can't be said any better than that.

the not so dumb jock

Posted by: joe at February 3, 2005 10:51 PM

Well since everyone else is posting essays based on one or two words they just happened to pick out and read, i figured i'd join the band wagon:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=embrace

That's for you Janice (winky face)

Posted by: A Chess Player 2 at February 3, 2005 10:55 PM

Paul, the best part of all this is your making a complete ass of yourself, you see, Zach Simpko, he doesn't go to this school anymore, so you might want to recheck your sources on who anonymous really is. Or you could continue to make an ass out of yourself either way... the point is, I talked to Josh Knopp today about this whole situation, and he was mike's roomate last year, and he played football for nine years of his life, but here he is a theatre major. Why isn't he a "stinky" "jock" just because he doesn't play here? And while the new rec center may not be just because of the football team, it is because of Our coach, without him, you would still just have that shitty weight room in sullivan. So before you write off that the football team had anything to do with it, you should check out why things are really getting done instead of using your own bullshit opinions, and maybe do something like thank coach snyder. Once again I play football and I am completely against the fact that who ever anonymous is (not Zach Simpko) put down soccer. But why did someone immediatly come to soccer's defense, you all have been putting down the football team since last year before we were even here. And to who ever said that you're only actually playing football for 15 minutes out of the game, you've obviously never played football at even the highschool level. If that was true, why would we spend countless hours on conditioning? When you've gone through a fraction of what we've gone through then you can talk. And to the girl who says that she doesnt associate with athelets cause they dont associate with you, what's your name, I would like to meet you maybe we could be friends.

Posted by: Chad Davies at February 4, 2005 1:18 AM

Ok Emily i think that you have a right to believe what you want about football players, but obviously you have had a bad experience with them, but you saying that we are not welcome hear is serious bullXXXX. I think that people need to realize that if you don't like it here, THEN LEAVE!!!!
Thank You come again!

Posted by: Chaz Kocher at February 4, 2005 2:10 AM

Ok Emily i think that you have a right to believe what you want about football players, but obviously you have had a bad experience with them, but you saying that we are not welcome hear is serious bullXXXX. I think that people need to realize that if you don't like it here, THEN LEAVE!!!!
Thank You come again!

Posted by: Chaz Kocher at February 4, 2005 2:11 AM

Its so nice...
I sent it twice. haha
boohoo your not welcome at SHC

Posted by: Chaz Kocher at February 4, 2005 2:12 AM

We all need to get together some time, and share in what we do best...we can throw some footballs, smoke some 'doobies', play meaningless songs with our stinged thingies, make silly putty with our chem. skills, and circle jerk as someone stated earlier....cause who doesn't need a helping hand sometimes....

love kiddies.....love

Posted by: Elton 'John' Lover at February 4, 2005 10:20 AM

Elton John Lover, i feel bad for you. After the comment you just made, it made me feel a little sad. Break-ups are hard, and your boyfriend(ex b/f now) might be back. There's other fish in the sea that will pack, i mean, talk to you.

Posted by: Some Pissed off kid! at February 4, 2005 11:45 AM

To all the Athletes/Non-athletes who keep responding to this excellent BLOG. I would just like to say that if you dont support the athletic,theatre,science,history or whatever other departments our at this University, then none of you should even give two shits about what goes in any of them. If your not in support of diversity at this campus, and the growth of what can be done at Seton Hill, then thats ridiculas. The only way the make this university expand and broaden id obviously for change. The phrase "THIS WAY UP" is obviously the schools mindset and eventual hopes of becoming a fine university in all aspects.(Education/Sports). If your so worried that bringing in more and more sports teams will be detrimental to your education then maybe you should find another university to attend, because you cant just cry about it and say "Well I was here first, and its not fair!" Well for crying out loud, change isnt totally bad, F.Y.I, I gurantee you that more then half the students at this university are willing to undergo some changes to the university, to make it a more diverse and community friendly school that could help promote not only visits from athletic recruits, but also from potential students looking for just the educational side. Honestly, I feel very strongly about where this University is going and I believe that it is going in the right direction, which is up.

And in closing, I am a Football player but I also attend the plays that are performed, the church sermons, I do community service(not for legal reasons)and I also respect every individual on this campus, not because if they play a sport, but because they our my fellow students and I paln on making my college years at SHU memorable and not filled with petty disagreements and frustrations about what does and does not belong here. I am here now and I plan on being here in the future.

Matthew Wiegand

Posted by: Matthew J. Wiegand at February 4, 2005 2:56 PM

So just because Zach doesn't go to school here anymore means he loses all access to the internet, as well as his ability to type? If you havent noticed, anyone can post on NMJ. Also, if you actually took the time to read my posts, you might have noticed that I never said anything about the team as a whole...I merely insulted the specific people who were pissing me off at the time. You might also notice that of the two people I called stupid, one of them admitted to his stupidity before I typed a word. Every "jock" keeps trying to make the point that not all athletes are stupid. I concede that point. In fact, I never even argued that point in the first place. Congratulations, much like a winner in a race between two civics, you've achieved nothing that matters.

As for Josh Knopp being a stinky jock...he is. Does that matter? Not in the least. As I previously stated, I have no problem with jocks as a group...I merely have problems with stupid people insisiting on showing off exactly how stupid they are, especially in public forums. Josh may be "stinky," but on the whole, he is one of the least benighted individuals I know.


Oh, and to Mathew...Petty disagreements are what make life interesting. You must be bored out of your mind.

Posted by: Paul Crossman at February 4, 2005 3:45 PM

Guys, I think all this fighting is pointless, counterproductive, and ultimately a little sad. I think instead of focusing on our differences instead of our similarities, we do a grave disservice to everyone. Remember there are things which apply to both sides which are unfairly being attributed to only one side. Remember, everyone masturbates.

Posted by: James at February 4, 2005 3:50 PM

Hey Chaz,

(For the future, it's "probably," not "probobally.") Let's see, you first told me that I have a right to believe in what I believe, and then you ended up telling me to leave - So much for "civilized debating." Of course, you have the safety of the computer to hide behind and say such rude things. If you ever do learn to debate civilly, come find me at the cafeteria and we can discuss our issues without resorting to telling each other "boohoo your not welcome at SHC." (For the record, I�m the blond who sits by the window (by the fireplace) at around 11:30 for lunch and 4:30 for dinner.)

That's of course, if you have the balls to�

Posted by: Emily Kasky at February 4, 2005 6:54 PM

Hey guys, just thought I'd join in the fun.

I am Emily's aforementioned senior Chem Major friend. I am going back to the substance of the original blog here. I was in the dinning hall when the announcement was made. I booed along with the vast majority of the people eating in the cafeteria. I booed not out of hatred for "jocks." The atheletes I went to school with were wonderful people, and I enjoyed their company. My class valedictorian was the quarterback. Also, I would like to mention that I like the sport of football at all levels. I hung out with the "band geeks" in high school, and while talking to them during a game, I would actually get too distracted to talk and watch football instead. There are a large number of student athletes here on campus, some of them even in the Chemistry department, a few of them my friends. But yet, I booed.

I booed for one main reason: Elizabeth Seton is rolling over in her grave with what has happened to this school. Seton Hill was designed as a small, women's-focused, liberal arts university. Now it's barely one of the three. I came to Seton Hill enjoying the unthreatening atmosphere, the extremely low crime rates, the lack of vandalism. As a Freshman, I always felt safe, I never had to push through crowds of people, and saying "hi" to someone in the hallway was as common as rice in the dining hall. Sophomore year, I found out the school was going co-ed. I wasn't happy about it, but I took it as a sign of the school adapting to what they seriously believed to be a problem--low enrollment. Vandalism became worse. Does anyone else remember the massive marker drawing in the Maura hallway from Sophomore year? Let me tell you, it wasn't a toaster.

Junior year, Seton Hill College becomes Seton Hill University. Good because notebooks become $0.99 a pop at the book store, bad because the anagram is stupid (SHU? What kind of stupid school initials are those?). Then, spring semester of my junior year, at the initial time this post was made, the football announcement happened. I saw the past three years of my college life flash before my eyes--the increase in vandalism, the reduction of friendly faces, the crowds of people--and THIS was what I booed at. Not football. Not jocks. Not "progress," or whatever the hell you want to call it. This beautiful institution has completely changed from what Elizabeth Ann Seton intended whenever she brought the Sisters of Charity to Pennsylvania.

Study hard, boys. Be courteous and polite. Don't draw dirty pictures on walls and signs. Don't use curse words as filler when you have nothing else to say. I know that there are a number of good student atheletes out there, and if they work hard, St. Elizabeth Seton might just be proud of what she created. Fail your classes, continue to be profane, and the jocks have every right to be insulted and derided for what they've done to Seton Hill. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Mother Seton's intentions were only good when she established this school.

Posted by: Stephanie Reigh at February 4, 2005 7:37 PM

I'm sorry, Stephanie, but did Elizabeth Ann Seton want this College to stay a small, exclusivist college, isolated from the possibility of diversity? Perhaps we need to reassess our reasons and come to some understanding. This whole thing reminds me of the integration movement of the 1950's and many of the same fears were expressed.

I hear people saying "there is a difference between "jock" and athlete, yet the whole premise of the argument is that "no football players should be allowed on campus." Now wait a minute, isn't that defeating the purpose? Unless all football players are automaticly "jocks," the argument is inconsistent.

Stephanie, I know the (easy) solution is to eschew the whole football team, but I know of more non-athletic people who do far worse things than say a few swear words. I know more people who engage in unprotected sex and drugs. The reason you aren't yelling at them is because:
1. they aren't athletes
2. they hide it and aren't true to themselves

Looking from a Calvanistic perspective, which is the greater of the two evils?

Alcohol is a problem with everyone, and should not be projected onto just the athletes. It's easy to point fingers and blame others, but it is much harder to look introspectively at our own problems (such as lack of acceptance for differences).

Posted by: Evan at February 4, 2005 8:10 PM

Um, Evan, you completely missed the point of what I said. You only heard my criticism. You didn't get the point of the message at all.

You weren't here four years ago, so you don't know what I mean. The only thing you know is now. Seton Hill has changed a lot. To quote you:
"[D]id Elizabeth Ann Seton want this College to stay a small, exclusivist college, isolated from the possibility of diversity?"
Of course not. I did not say ban football players. I said that the problem wasn't football at all! Seton Hill has lowered its standards extensively to grow in population. I booed at football because it was a continuation of that growth. Selectivity and exclusivity are not the same thing--you need to be somewhat selective, or else the school loses all of its good qualities.

Way to pervert my meaning. I booed the football announcement that day, and it had nothing to do with football. You made a terrible assumption:
"I know the (easy) solution is to eschew the whole football team, but I know of more non-athletic people who do far worse things than say a few swear words. I know more people who engage in unprotected sex and drugs. The reason you aren't yelling at them is because:
1. they aren't athletes
2. they hide it and aren't true to themselves"
Did you notice I was complaining about the state of the school in general? No, you ignored that. There were no football players here last year or the year before that. The school has been on a downward spiral since my Freshman year. Read the very first comment on the blog entry, made by alumus Donna Hibbs.

All I meant by my honest and heart-felt post (which you totally degraed, I might add) was that Elizabeth Ann Seton wanted more from this school than what it has become. I remember what it was like when I was a freshman. It was a lot different.

Posted by: Stephanie at February 4, 2005 9:20 PM

Oh, dear Stephanie, don't be so paranoid, of course my comment was not directed directly at you. I'm sorry, but perhaps the mission of including a football team and, as you call "lowering standards" is to reach out to people who might not otherwise be reached. Does this mean Seton Hill should trash its Opportunity Program? Think before you accuse me of degrading your post. I'm trying to make a point to everyone, not just you.

Posted by: Evan at February 4, 2005 10:25 PM

So this is the "drama", congratulations to all who had blogged about this issue, I commend all of you for not taking for granted the 1st amendment. Isn't it nice that all of us can come to the table of discourse and voice our given right (privilege) to an "opinion."

I like Elton John's music especially, "your song" "rocket man", "daniel" "goodbye yellow brick road" "candle in the wind" "I guess that's what they call it the blues" "sacrifice", "the one" "don't let the sun go down on me". Can't we just all feel the love tonight?

Today I found out that somebody listed me as their hero (one of my peers), isn't that the greatest feeling ever, being someone's hero?

Posted by: Michael Diezmos at February 8, 2005 10:53 PM

Stephanie,
St. Elizabeth Seton is gone. No matter how much you wish she were still here. There will be no lesbianic love fest between the two of you. GET OVER IT!! As I understand, you're including the football program with those things which, in your opinion, are not in the best interests of a dead woman. Would St. Seton have been ok with the use of elecricity at SHU? How about automobiles? How about, God forbid, BLACK PEOPLE??!! Universities evolve. To judge individuals you do not know is stereotyping. I would think that a liberal arts school would have taught all of you better.

Posted by: t. johnson at February 20, 2005 2:52 PM

#2 reason states that the SHU football team will NEVER be good. They went 10-3 last year. Made the NATIONAL playoffs. And are currently ranked in the top 25 in the nation. I don't know if anyone still looks at this joke of a blog but it's still available on the Internet. So I just want to tell Mike Rubino respectfully. You were completely wrong and Seton Hill is a better school for having sports programs. Thanks buddy.

Posted by: Go Griffins! at August 17, 2009 12:52 PM
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